User talk:William One Sac/Archive2

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Please do not edit this page, this page is an archive for my talk page.

Contents 1 Editor Status 2 Editor 3 Block my IP 4 conspiracy chatbot 5 Page deletions 6 Deleted Pages 7 Question about page deleting 8 Hello - please help 9 Thankyou so much :) 10 Plagiarism of original copyrighted material 11 A project page was spammed, not sure if I can safely delete 12 I'm interested in becoming an editor. 13 Done 14 Combating spam 15 Plagarism 16 I need assistance 17 Tried an adjustment of About page background color 18 Deleted Subject Matter Expert category 19 Marking good articles 20 Mystery of the Sidebar: some progress (I think) 20.1 Update: I did it 21 Server uptime 22 "nogomatch" interface message 23 Did some superficial browsing today 24 Idea for your consideration 25 Re: Hello There! :)

Editor Status

Sure. What all is there I would need to do? And thanks!

--DP-EBE 17 11:14, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

Editor

Sure thing! Would be an honor to take my tinWiki editing one more step and help it out! :^)

--DP-EBE 17 05:23, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Block my IP

Why? Apparently because I erased data about the 8th level of Dulce? The same data I put in from a false website, correct? I unblocked myself, so there really wasn't a point there. Hmmm, no warning either? At least I would give one or at least attempt to ask why. --DP-EBE 17 15:18, 9 November 2006 (CST)

conspiracy chatbot

hi

for a lecture in 'conspiracy theories', i am working on a chatbot that will stay in the chatchannel as it were a 'person' and would talk toghether with others about the subject.

i need some help though i thinking on some questions on the subject. it would be wonderfull if you could help me. would you mind in answering these questions? (anything else you have to say on the subject will be very welcome)

- What is a conspiracy theorist? how does his/ her mind operates? - What happens with the target subject? ( I mean, when it is said that feminisme a CIA agenda to dismantle civilization and create a New World Order, what happens to FEMINISME? Does it get more attention? Is it positive?) - in what way does the internet becames a good ground to spread these theories? - When is something about been alert , vigilant and when it is about being paranoid? When does critique turns into paranoide behavior? - Can we use this anxiety, mixed with latent distrust and vigilance positively? Like to counter attact this obsession for public safety and hyper-surveillance for instance?

my email adres is: joy.evidence @ planet.nl thank you very much in advance claudia

WOS, on the david icke entry, no I am not hte original author. I think that was one of the earlier pages I created, I had just cut and pasted the info from the mainline Wikipedia to create some entries for us. I might've excluded any non-conspiracy related material, or otherwise tried to shorten it for us. But around the same time I realized that it was far better for us to create our own entries, even if they started off smaller and less researched.

Page deletions

Hi, I created three pages yesterday which you deleted. They are Agenda 21, United Nations, and Sustainable development. I expect you deleted them because they were too short, if this was not the reason then please let me know how they should have been made differently. I think it was strange that you deleted them so immediately instead of putting on a message requesting people add more information. 62.16.188.173 17:29, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Deleted Pages

Yes, I deleted the pages because they each consisted of a single sentence. I would be very happy to help you create the pages, however they need some information on them. We get hit with alot of spam, and while I didn't necessarily think that was what you were doing, it has made me wary. Sorry if I misjudged your intentions. I restored the pages and designated them as stubs until they have some meat on them.

William One Sac 23:01, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Thank you, I appreciate that! :-) Sorry about the spam, I understand measures need to be taken. The reason I created the pages was I thought the topics are important and deserve articles so I created pages even though I didn't really have information to put in them yet. I will try and expand the articles. 62.16.188.173 23:27, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Question about page deleting

William One Sac,

Hello, I made a mistake not paying attention and created a user page when I was really trying to post a comment to the user's discussion page. Now I wanted to delete the page I created by mistake, but wasn't sure if that would cause some unwanted result like deleting the discussion along with the main page, or perhaps even delete the user's entire account!, which obviously I didn't quite want to risk. Anyway, just wanted to ask about this since it came up as a topic for me right now. Could I delete the user's page that I mistakenly created, or would that be bad?... Optimist 15:58, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

Hello Optimist. I tested it out and it is safe to delete the users page. The talk page will remain uneffected. William One Sac 18:11, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

Thank you. Great. I will delete the page then and pay more attention next time. Optimist 03:41, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Hello - please help

Hello, No idea if this is the place to message you but here goes :) For over a week I have been trying to reset my password on ATS, and never receive the email. I have also tried registering again as a new user from multiple email addresses, and have completed the contact form on the site 3 times now, all without a single mail back......

Please can you post something on the board asking one of the Amigos to check the SMTP queue, as I imagine it is stacked up. How they have not noticed this I am not sure (or the fact that anonymous posting has had nothing new for over a month, I did try that).

Cheers

Shambles :)

(Thanks for little plus sign tip - didnt know what that did)

Thankyou so much :)

Thanks kindly for the password.....was frustrating not being able to say anything, especially about not being able to say anything :D.....

Really appreciate it - thank you. Shambles 20:18, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Plagiarism of original copyrighted material

From Ken Adachi, Editor of www.educate-yourself.org

(I can't find an e-mail address or any other way to contact you other than fill in this form. It's not necessarily intended for publication on your web site. I'm just trying to communicate with you with the only avenue that you've provided..Ken Adachi)

Dear Mr One Sac,

I have two things to draw to your attention:

1. In my overview of the New World Order article posted on the internet in 1997, I wrote the following lines:

(excerpt from http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/)

Huntington's ideas were rewritten into National Security Decision Directive #47 (NSDD47), which was enacted in July 1982 by President Reagan. Treated as a passing footnote by the media, this law identified legitimate areas to be upgraded to maintain national defense, but it also laid the groundwork for Emergency Mobilization Preparedness, a plan under which existing socio/economic regulations or other legal constraints would be waived in the event of a national emergency. This plan was further strengthened in Public Law 101-647, signed by President Bush in November 1990.What it boils down to is this: in the event that the President declares a national emergency, for any reason (from major earthquakes to increased international tensions or economic /financial crisis of any stripe), FEMA can then, at their discretion, implement Executive Orders 10995 through 11005. These Executive Orders permit a takeover by FEMA of local, state, and national governments and the suspension of constitutional guarantees. FEMA will have the authority to exert any sort of control that it deems necessary upon the American public. A trained National Police Force, formally referred to by the name of Multi Jurisdictional Task Force (MJTF), wearing black uniforms and composed of:

   1. specially selected US military personnel
   2. foreign military units carrying United Nations ID cards, and
   3. specially trained existing police groups from larger metropolitan American cities.

These members of the MJTF will implement and enforce martial law under the direction and controlof FEMA. The President and Congress are out of the loop.

FEMA is the Trojan Horse by which the New World Order will implement overt, police-state control over the American populace.

[end of excerpt from Ken Adachi]

The following lines were taken from your overview essay on the NWO posted at tinwiki.org web site:

"These Executive Orders are said to be able to permit FEMA to effectively take over local, state and national governments and to suspend the constitutional guarantees. FEMA will then have the authority to exert any sort of control that it deems to be necessary upon the American public. Some people believe that a trained National Police Force, formally referred to by the name of Multi Jurisdictional Task Force (MJTF), composed of:

  1. Specially selected US military personnel
  2. Foreign military units carrying United Nations ID cards, and
  3. Specially trained existing police groups from larger metropolitan American cities. 

These alleged members of the MJTF would have the power to implement and enforce martial law under the direction and control of FEMA. A lot of people believe that FEMA is the Trojan Horse by which the New World Order will implement overt, police state control over the American populace. " [End of quote]

Did you notice that there's a remarkable and astonishing similarity between certain lines, sentences, and phrases that I composed in 1997 and lines from your essay that you claim is your COPYRIGHTED material?

I notice that you have no problem ascribing credit to Alex Jones, David Icke or Jeff Rense, but I see no mention of my name or my web site. I realize that I'm not likely viewed as a Big Deal in your eyes, and I can accept that, but if I played a role in bringing YOU or whoever stole my copy up to speed about FEMA or other aspects of the NWO, then I think the least you could do is to attribute credit to me as the author of that lifted material. Otherwise it's called plagiarism and that's a no-no in the world of publishing.

2. It's outrageous that you should have so much text devoted to the Tavistock Institute and not one word of credit is given to the man who SINGLE HANDEDLY brought the entire Tavistock story to public awareness. His name is Dr John Coleman and everything you have written about Tavistock and its players ORIGINATED AT THE TYPEWRITER OF DR. COLEMAN, and not that of Dr Byron Weeks or other pretenders to the Tavistock story.

If you read Dr Coleman's book on Tavistock, you wouldn't be printing such egregious errors like "Tavistock began in 1947" It began as Wellington House in 1913 and became Tavistock in 1921. The role played by Kurt Lewin and other influential people involved with Tavistock was unearth and exposed exclusively by Dr Coleman while pouring over resticted archives in the British museum. If it wasn't for John Coleman, you wouldn't have paragraph after paragraph of information to write about Tavistock and it players because Coleman, and Coleman alone, DUG IT UP.

Let's set the record straight, shall we?

Sincerely, Ken Adachi

(Since this might be published, I can't leave my e-mail address here. To reach me, go to www.educate-yourself.org and click on the Contact US link at the top of any page and you'll be directed to an e-mail form which will reach me)

Hello, William One Sac (and Ken Adachi, if you read this), The edit when the material on FEMA and Executive Orders was added to the NWO page, was made on 09:19, 9 July 2006. As for the Tavistock material, the section for that was added in an edit made on 18:03, 10 July 2006. Optimist 06:38, 30 July 2007 (CDT)

Hi Ken, I want you to know tinwiki has strict rules against plagiarism of any kind. I removed your work from the article. I appreciate you pointing that out to me, as I said, plagiarism is not tolerated here by any means.

William One Sac 11:36, 30 July 2007 (CDT)

A project page was spammed, not sure if I can safely delete

It seems I could delete the TinWiki.org:Community Portal page which has only spam on it (even though it seems the spam is in the wiki text and doesn't actually show on the page), but I am afraid that deleting the page would mess with the automatic redirect (to ATS) which that page seems to do. Optimist 07:11, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

P.S. Not sure what happened (how I viewed tha page), it looked like an empty page but now when I look at the page by going through the history page, it seems the spam is indeed visible. Optimist 07:15, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

It was safe to delete it. It had a different url than the link in the sidebar, so I held my breath and took a chance. The link in the sidebar still works, so I don't think there was any damage done.

William One Sac 10:12, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Great, and I will look out for the url being different if the same thing happens later, I mean people spamming such pages so a delete is needed. Btw., thank you for posting this reply to my page discussion, too. Actually I had seen your reply here but for some reason I didn't put an answer, I guess I should be more on ATS and learn some forum manners. :-) Totally off topic, I figured out how to create an avatar in my ATS account recently, and even a signature image that links to tinWiki, I am quite proud & happy with both. :) Even further off topic, I just came in from watching daybreak, it's a fine planet indeed, this is. Optimist 22:20, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm interested in becoming an editor.

I wouldn't say I'm the most experienced at wiki editing, but I am aiming to improve Tinwiki with or without becoming an editor. :) Thanks! Have a great day. --Anii 23:15, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

Welcome aboard Anii. We are always looking for new editors. Just stick to what you are doing for a while. Also, it would be good if you started some new articles on your own. Originally we had a requirement that anyone who is to be considered for becoming an editor had to have completed 10 acceptable articles. However we have kind of eased up on those rules a bit as the tinWiki has lost some popularity. William One Sac | tinWiki Administrator 08:48, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Done

Well, the block list just got a bit longer I guess. Optimist 21:52, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for your help. :-) William One Sac | tinWiki Master 21:55, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

Combating spam

William One Sac, Hi, I managed to find this tips page about combating spam. Even though I don't understand it all myself, I would say it looks quite interesting. Optimist 11:39, 7 October 2007 (CDT)

Excellent find Optimist! I have forwarded the link to the Overlord. We were speaking about this just last night. He said if we could find the plug-ins and seting changes, he would look into what needs to be done. Hopefully this will be of use to him. William One Sac | tinWiki Master 11:59, 7 October 2007 (CDT)

Plagarism

Hi William. I was reading this article and it occurred to me that perhaps the reason its style was inappropriate was because it was plagiarized. Sure enough, it was in full from this site. I'm not sure how you deal with this, just letting you know. If the tinWiki writer happened to be the author of the other article, it would still have to be rewritten, as it's largely in 1st and 2nd person. --Yuefo 21:56, 18 October 2007 (CDT)--24.180.29.94 21:54, 18 October 2007 (CDT)

Mig-17 here. Is this Yuefo a new user? Someone has been following me around vandalizing my stuff at different wikis. They blanked the main page at the pagan wikia I edit and added insults.

For the record, I compiled the procedure for the Other World Society. Also, credit is given to the society. --Mig-17 17:57, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Mig-17, be very careful about your implications. I have not been following you around, I don't go to any other wiki, and furthermore the person vandalizing your work wouldn't be able to do so anonymously. As for authoring the entry, please review what I said: "If the tinWiki writer happened to be the author of the other article, it would still have to be rewritten, as it's largely in 1st and 2nd person." --Yuefo 00:16, 23 October 2007 (CDT)

I need assistance

I left a U2U for you regarding an entry. Thanks. --Yuefo 00:07, 23 October 2007 (CDT)

Tried an adjustment of About page background color

William One Sac,

Hi, just want to mention to you that I tried a more 'mild' yellow background in the table in About, and also added some cellpadding. It's just an experiment, so feel free to revert if you don't like the look. Optimist 11:05, 15 November 2007 (CST)

It looks great! Nice job as usual. :-) William One Sac | tinWiki Master 11:09, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Deleted Subject Matter Expert category

Hi, again,

That Subject Matter Expert category seemed to not make any sense here in tinWiki, and I have deleted it. There was only one article in the category, namely that 'hugemongous' ATS post (series) called "The Case for Roswell".

That article I have now moved to a new title, "Timeline", or, to be 'honest', "Roswell crash timeline", and have moved the non-timeline material over to the main Roswell article. There is a smaller timeline section in the main Roswell article, and I have linked from there and to what is now the main timeline article (previously "The Case for Roswell").

I am hoping it wasn't too rash to delete that category. It can of course be re-created if necessary. About the article I have 'split up', that was a really large article, and there was also a warning saying it shouldn't be more than 32 kB and that it was 161 kB (or something), so I believe that article had to be portioned up in some way. I hope you consider these edits to be improvements and cleaning up.

Anyway, I was glad to see you like that color in About. :-) Thanks for letting me know. Optimist 14:12, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Marking good articles

William One Sac,

Hi, I have thought that it could be good to label the best tinWiki articles, sort of the opposite of the Fix banner, and make it complete with a category. I experimented with a template message for this now. The template is far from complete and is only a sketch.

What do you think about the general idea, however, of marking good articles? Optimist 09:09, 18 November 2007 (CST)

A follow-up thought (or what it's called): if this marking good articles were done, then I think it could be good to have somewhere to nominate candidates. It could be a page set aside only for this, for example "TinWiki.org:Outstanding nominees", or nominations could be done in the category page discussion, or there could be other methods that I can't think of right now.

I came to think that I may have mentioned this topic before (?), and that I then said I felt decisions of what qualifies as a good article should be made by you and probably some other administrators. I may remember wrong though, it may have been something other than marking good articles that I said that about. Anyway, if good articles are marked, I do think the administrators should decide which ones, as opposed to just any user and visitor labelling articles as good. After all, such a label would sort of be defining the best content of tinWiki, and so would be a somewhat important matter. Optimist 09:30, 18 November 2007 (CST)

Mystery of the Sidebar: some progress (I think)

William One Sac,

I tried looking around some now for information about how the Sidebar works and all that. Through this and this page in the MediaWiki.org site I found what seems to say that this "Special:" tinWiki page holds the answers. (But I'm not sure.) As I understand it, a link in the Sidebar goes to where it says it goes, ...unless the target page name is the same as the name of what is called an "interface message", in which case the link, instead of showing the target page content, does whatever the interface message makes it. If I understood this correctly in the least, it would explain why the Community portal link does not actually bring up the page it links to. (As you know, that link's target is http://tinwiki.org/wiki/TinWiki.org:Community_Portal but it doesn't actually lead there...)

Hope I was able to express myself. Not sure that this is the whole solution, 'cause I didn't actually see any interface message that seemed to link to ATS, but I think the information about this interface messages 'business' is relevant, or that it at least is good to have available just in general. Anyway, just wanted to update you on my little 'find' here. :-) Optimist 17:27, 18 November 2007 (CST)

Update: I did it

I don't really 'get' it, but I managed to change the link none the less. I'm a bit confused and so will try and explain why that is, but first I want to let you know that the name of the target page must be put in this page. I have right now replaced the page name that was there with the page name of the Community portal I initiated (strictly speaking I used the previous name, which is now a redirect page). Feel free to revert my edit so that the Community portal link goes to ATS if I was a bit hasty there.

Now, why I am confused is two things. As I understood it, the Sidebar is directly created by this page, with the links formatted as "target + pipe + link label". But the link labels are not exactly the same as what is actually seen in the Sidebar. I'll admit that confuses me. Secondly, as I understand it, the Community portal link is controlled by an interface message called "portal-url", which simply contains the name of the target page (kind of a redirect except it doesn't say "#redirect" before the target page name and also the target page name is simply written and is not formatted as a link). Now, the page name which was in that interface message called "portal-url" is Project:Community Portal. And here comes the second (and last) thing that confuses me here: you and I have both edited that page and looked at its wiki code contents, and it does not redirect to ATS, but when loading that page, it does -- none the less -- redirect to ATS.

A bit baffling.

I know this explanation of the things I'm confused about was not too clear, but I hope it's possible to get some idea if reading through it a couple of times. :-) I mainly just wanted to get down on 'paper' something about this topic. Trying to deny ignorance. :-)

Anyway, I must say that I think it's way cool that this topic about the Community portal link in the sidebar has finally gotten somewhere. *fanfare* *cake for everyone* :-) Optimist 18:15, 18 November 2007 (CST)

Server uptime

William One Sac,

Hi, I want to mention that I am, since fifteen minutes ago, trying to learn the percentage of the tinwiki.org server uptime, and am 'pinging' tinwiki.org every ten seconds. I hope that this is not seen as a problem. Right now I am thinking that doing this for like two days or such would give enough information to get a fairly accurate percent number.

The reason I am wanting to do this is I have noticed that every now and then tinwiki.org becomes unavailable for a minute or some minutes. By the way, the software I am using is called FreePING (I also downloaded another free testing software, called Server Tester, which may be better but I'm not using that, although I might switch later).

If this is a problem, I will of course stop the testing immediately. Optimist 07:26, 19 November 2007 (CST)

It appears that got me ip blocked from the server, so I assume it was in fact seen as a problem (I am only able to view tinWiki.org now because I am surfing through a proxy page -- http://www.siatec.net/proxyanonymizer/ ).

I have turned off the testing software and hope the blocking of my ip will disappear in some time. Sorry. Optimist 09:05, 19 November 2007 (CST)

"nogomatch" interface message

William One Sac,

Looking at the interface messages page I was able find where to add the option to request a page when a search gave no hits for the term, and went ahead and added the option.

Previously the message was, 'There is no page titled "example". You can create this page.' (Where the words "create this page" is a link to go create the page.) Now the message is, 'There is no page titled "example". You can create this page or request it.' (Where the word "request" is also a link -- to the Wanted Pages page.)

I hope it is alright that I went ahead and did this, feel free to revert if needed. Optimist 08:56, 20 November 2007 (CST)

Did some superficial browsing today

William One Sac,

Hi, I just want to mention a thought I had after glancing a bit at some articles today. (I made a new page called "Government" and then searched for that word so I could link from other articles, and looked at the list of hits down to number 200 and picked the ones that I wanted to link from. While looking briefly at the pages, I had some thoughts about some of them.)

My impression is that tinWiki has established itself and is ready to take like a step further as far as improvement in various ways. In the beginning, it is understandable to me how just getting started was a main concern, but now I think tinWiki is ready to focus a little more on refining, so to speak, its content.

A particular thought I had was that, given what type of website tinWiki is defined as, its (encyclopedia article) pages should be in a certain way. Some of the articles in the encyclopedia pages of tinWiki seem, however, to simply be of a different type from what they should be in this particular website: instead of being collaborative wiki encyclopedic articles, they are signed reports by this or that individual, or "reprinted with permission from..." this or that individual.

As a database, which one perhaps might call this website, tinWiki must depend on structure -- that is what makes it an encyclopedia. In my view, this means that, in the 'next stage' of improvement and refinement, tinWiki needs to either get those articles that don't fit into the wiki encyclopedia concept removed or rewritten. Some of these articles that I'm talking about now may perhaps not be appropriate to rewrite since their value lies precisely in that they are reports from whatever individual. Those articles would make more sense to link to from the External links section. I have, by the way, also thought the same about this Beast of Black River article that was created here lately. They are essensially personal blog posts or reports, which is obviously a completely different format of writing from what we are doing in this website.

If those pages could be moved out of tinWiki, I'm not sure where they could go. I imagined making some blogspot page or something, but then I remembered that ATS has its own blog space. What do you think of the general topic I'm highlighting here, though? I mean about how the basic 'format frame' needs to be adhered to for tinWiki to be as cohesive and true to its idea -- and thus 'quality oriented' and user friendly -- as possible. I may personally have some tendency to 'nit-pick', but right now I'm not really talking about getting overly 'control freak' about details, but about the very basic idea, that this is a wiki of encyclopedic articles where the articles should be possible to improve for anyone (...who has something to contribute). Optimist 19:35, 21 November 2007 (CST)

[long... reply to your post here]

William One Sac,

Thank you for the reply, I was glad to see from how you replied that I had managed to express exactly what I mean, and also that you found my thoughts to make sense. :-)

I am thinking that my reply sort of will address from one single perspective all the topics you mention, because I feel it's really about pretty much the same sort of issue. Firstly, about suggestions for how to promote tinWiki at ATS, I haven't really got anything concrete to suggest, but I do have a thought none the less -- which, as I mentioned, will tie in with all the other topics.

Promoting tinWiki; the issue of not enough people writing and editing tinWiki; the issue of people writing a handful of good articles, asking for (a well-deserved) editor status but then sort of leaving; and, finally, that thing about the articles I mentioned that seem to not quite fit the tinWiki 'mold' or such; I believe all those issues have one single, and perhaps simple (?) solution (but then I may be looking a bit too simplisticly and "optimisticly" on things.. sort of a pun in there, I noticed... :-)

Beginning my 'explanation' with (for some reason) the people posting some solid articles and then sort of leaving, I believe the issue there is a matter of just how they perceive this website. My imagination is that they perceive this place based on assumptions based on their existing knowledge about stuff that 'looks like' this place -- which is a totally normal behavior, of course. I mean, I believe they see this place as something like a book, newspaper, magazine, bulletin board on a wall, radio show (perhaps), tv show (perhaps), or, naturally, a 'website'. Which means, they see this place as a 'publishing place', a place to publish stuff.

Which, of course, is a total and complete mistake.

Still, it's a natural, normal, and totally understandable mistake. After all, what this website is -- a wiki -- isn't really a 'medium format' like anything that existed in the past, I would say.

I think a super creative project, although it is probably something that needs to take some time (I mean, at least a couple of weeks or something), would be to first try and define tinWiki a little bit, articulately, verbally, and then get that 'internally prepared' understanding across 'externally'. If I'm managing to express myself, now.

That would solve the matter of people who come here, do a 'writer job' and afterwards wish to get their contributions acknowledged by getting a 'status', but feel that they now have contributed something to publish, and so can move on knowing they have done a good piece of work for tinWiki (a good piece of work they have, of course, also done). It would also prevent mistakes, so to call them, like the signed personal 'reports'. It would also make tinWiki easier to 'get', as far as what this place is, and so would make it easier for people to contribute -- and so more people would (I do expect). And, about promoting this place in ATS, I also believe that would become extremely much more easy if there existed a nice and verbal 'statement' that defined quite clearly and expressly what type of place this is and isnt', and what the goal of this place is and isn't.

There are of course statements already now about tinWiki's nature and goal.

Continuing those articulations, however, and focusing on that as really the foundation of all of tinWiki, is something I think would be really helpful for tinWiki. As of course is the reason for tinWiki's existence in the first place: verbal articulations, as expressed and precise and meaningfully laid out as possible, are more extremely important than I think anyone can adequately describe. I believe that very strongly and in a very personal way, at that. (On a side note, I also think words aren't "god", just so it's said, since I don't think people are clever enough to articulate "godly". But in our human lives, culturally, in civilization, and so on..., I think life is basically only as good as our understandings are precise, and human precise understandings can only be 'implemented' socially/culturally if they are verbalized/articulated... Which is what verbal language is all about. (Of course, also, verbalizations should be based on Truth. Which is of course exactly what tinWiki is here to help with. :-))

Perhaps getting my head down again from up there in the "clouds" a little bit now, :-) my conclusion is that I think one of the important things that could help tinWiki is to spend some time to try and prepare a clear and accurate description of this site and what it is about, working at it for some time, just keeping it as a running project until the description starts to look really good, and make that description a solid 'foundation' and definition for everything that goes on here. I believe that will attract the activity which tinWiki can use, and will repel, so to say, activity which isn't entirely in line with the 'idea' of this site. (I don't mean like the 'law of attraction' or like in that movie The Secret, I just mean that a precise statement about the website is simple and easy for users to understand and relate to and 'navigate' by. Who knows though, perhaps the law of attraction, and all that, works, as well...)

However, like you, I also look at tinWiki in a sort of long term perspective, I mean it's natural for me to see tinWiki as a part of society for the coming decades -- since I see tinWiki to really be about a totally central 'thing' in human society, and a thing that is just beginning to be focused on but which we need to focus on, and which we also now *can* focus (in a 'socially widespread' way) on thanks to this information technology and the Internet. So, my thoughts now about focusing a bit on defining what tinWiki is, that's definitely something that I think can be done over some weeks, even months, just as a project to look in on now and then. My thought about the definition is I think it's an important part of tinWiki, but not an urgent part....

Lastly (finally), perhaps articles that might seem to be 'ruined' if they were edited like normal wiki pages could have it 'both ways' -- both get displayed in the blog and also stay here to get edited. About what you said about naming pages that could be moved, I am thinking that would be very good, and maybe they could get a special banner (like the Fix or Stub banners) stating something about what's special about them, and perhaps they could also be locked until a copy of the original was safely in place in the blog or such. Then, after an 'offsite' version was secure, the page could be opened for editing and it could be edited like a normal page? Optimist 20:33, 23 November 2007 (CST)

[reply from here] William One Sac,

Hi, I feel I understand what you describe, and I like the concept, so to speak, of a descriptive "Mission" page. I certainly agree that the title is important. Trying to not be too elaborate, I would say information is 'divided' in circa three parts: the farthest 'back' is Truth as such, the part closer than Truth is humans' articulation of 'insights' and observations, and the closest part is how to convey or present articulated/verbalized information to others. Presentation should certainly be taken seriously, or it won't 'work'. I imagine a good presentation demands that one considers the subject matter carefully so one's first key words (like headline) are, like you also seem to say, immediately suggesting the core issue. (This is also how tinWiki articles are suggested to be written, according to how I understand the style guide.)

Mostly, your title suggestions seem concise and to the point. tinWiki does indeed have a mission, and the page you describe and which sounds would be of great help, sounds to be about that, tinWiki's mission. I am thinking particular focus should be given also to pointing out the nature of this site, so I would offer the suggestion to add the word "method", perhaps, for example making, "tinWiki's Method and Mission" or "tinWiki Mission and Method". As for the general arrangement regarding the new page and the Main page, I am reminded of what we have talked about before a little bit, concerning the About page and how that could be edited so the information there is better 'distributed' across the About page and the Main page (since, as it is now, the same information is pretty much just repeated verbatim on both pages.) Anyway, in short, I really like both the things you describe, and the name for the new page sounds good, but I feel the page (or it might be on a 'parallell' page (?)) should, in addition to mission, also focus on tinWiki's 'way' so that contributors can be prepared as to how things work here (some concise clues as to the collaborative editing of wiki pages, and also a couple of basic style pointers, too, perhaps). Those are my thoughts, right now. Optimist 20:24, 27 November 2007 (CST)

Idea for your consideration

William One Sac,

Hi, I just want to mention to you something I came to think of right now while 'pondering' a couple of aspects of tinWiki and getting some thoughts about various 'framework' and other editing that might be good to do. What if we had a tinWiki Gizmo conference? (Works for dial-up, too, and also for older computers.) For example announced a month or two in advance. Optimist 00:10, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Re: Hello There! :)

[reply from here]

William One Sac,

Thank you for the reply, I think those are definitely some positive things you describe there. I have thought that, perhaps it would be great to have someone who know php fairly good to assist now and then, since it seems that is the programming language or script (or what it is) which tinWiki settings are done in (I mean like installing CAPCHA and so on).

I will try and reduce the image preview table in the "revamp" page. Thanks for the encouraging comment on my experimenting there so far. Of course, feel free to edit in any Main Page ideas you might want to try out (the same goes for anyone else who are interested, too). Anyway, I definitely think next year might get really great for tinWiki. :-) Optimist 23:01, 26 December 2007 (CST)