User talk:William One Sac/Archive3From TinWiki.org
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[edit] Typo on Main Page.For more information about AboveTopSecret.com LLP and it's goals for the TinWiki project, contact the partners here. The italicized word should be "its", not "it's". See How to Use Apostrophes, on wikiHow. ~Webster 13:44, 28 December 2007 (CST)
[edit] Re: Question about dates[reply to this] William One Sac, Hi. Thanks for the message. The differences between, on the one hand, the wiki code used to display the date on the Main Page and, on the other hand, the date wiki code I have used on the Current events page could be the explanation, at least that's what I'm immediately thinking now. And what the difference is, is I have used plain date wiki codes, whereas on the Main Page the date is instead displayed "indirectly" by using a Template message that contains these date wiki codes. Perhaps if the Main Page used the plain date wiki codes directly, your browser would display updated information. By the way, in the Main Page revamp page, I've used the plain date codes (as opposed to the Template message). This difference in how the displaying of the date is done in the wiki code, is the only possible explanation I can think of right now. Optimist 05:15, 20 January 2008 (CST) [edit] General improvements in relation to Main Page revamp project?William One Sac, Hello. I have thought about something I wanted to ask you: in addition to further improvements on that Main Page revamp project, what (if any) other specific stuff would you think could be nice to improve before eventually updating the Main Page? What I mean is, when the details start to fall into place as far as things to improve on the Main Page, it might be nice to already have "filed off sharp corners" (I hope that term makes sense in English) here in tinWiki in general, before eventually putting in place the slightly updated Main Page "layout". Maybe changing some colors here or there or adding or removing elements on pages, or even adding or removing/changing entire pages. Stuff like that, so the site here gives a kind of well-rounded impression, so to say. I don't think I have any concrete thoughts right now, myself, but I think this topic makes some sense to consider. You may not have any specific thoughts on this just now, either, but I wanted to mention the general topic to you, for consideration across some weeks or such. We have all the time in the world. :-) Also, other people's ideas and input on this is good, too, of course, so maybe I'll post about it in the forum, as well. Optimist 20:17, 21 January 2008 (CST)
[edit] A help ad in the Community portalWilliam One Sac, Hi. I put a sort of ad in the Community portal page, asking if anyone happens to be a MediaWiki expert and can point out how to correctly install the CAPTCHA. This is how it looks:
Hi: I'd be interested in editing and writing for Tinwiki. I'm a veteran journalist, having worked as a copy editor in the editorial department of The Washington Post for two decades(1981-2002). Have a resume if you'd like to see it. Hate interviews usually. Thanks for your time. Tim Ruane [edit] CAPTCHA seems is installed, but not workingListed under "Extensions" is: "ConfirmEdit, Simple captcha implementation, by Brion Vibber". I find this information in this Special pages page. However, even if ConfirmEdit is in fact installed, it seems it's not working. The reason for this, as I understand it, is that tinWiki is using a version lower than 1.6.0. So the next project now seems to be, not to install CAPTCHA (since that is already done), but, upgrading the MediaWiki version that tinWiki uses. Whether that is a reasonably simple task or not, I don't know. But it is a progress in this CAPTCHA/spam figthing topic, I'd say, to know this about version requirements for the ConfirmEdit Extension (I'm pretty sure I understood it correctly, anyway...) Optimist 17:54, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
[edit] Labelling the best tinWiki articlesWilliam One Sac, Hi. I was thinking right now about what I mentioned a while back, that perhaps it would be a good idea to have a kind of opposite category to the Fix category, namely a category for the best articles. I did make a banner for that, and also did make the category, and also a page where people can write up titles of articles they want to nominate to get labelled as an especially good article. Anyway, I was thinking now that perhaps it could be nice so put some articles in that category, that is, give them that banner I created (my version of that banner is absolutely possible to improve, though, so if you or anyone else have ideas for it, then feel free, of course). What I thought now is that I imagine you have picked the "Featured Article of the Week" articles based, at least partly, on that they are good articles quality wise (in addition to that the topic may be especially interesting), and so I thought that perhaps those articles could be a good place to start. Maybe I can write a list, even make its own page of it, of the articles that have been Featured Article of the Week, and then those that look especially good out of those articles can get the banner (I called that banner/Template Message, and the Category, "Outstanding", which is of course also possible to change if some other term or title would be more descriptive or such). Maybe I can go ahead an make a new page to list the pages that have been Featured Article of the Week, and then I can write up the ones that I myself think look like they are among the best tinWiki articles, in the nominations list. Optimist 09:34, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
[edit] Re: tinWiki colors.William One Sac, Thank you for the message. Yes, I certainly agree that this topic is interesting, and also important. I think I see what you mean, about the page you linked to. It comes across as simple and clear-cut, a to-the-point visual style. At least I imagine that's the type of thing you described would be good to move tinWik's visual style towards. Having a New pages list on the front page also seems like a very good thing, because that would put more focus on the actual writing, and of course writing is fairly central in a wiki of this type (collaborative wiki, which I guess most wikis are, but I'm not sure). Looking at the wiki code they have there for that, it seems they have done that manually. As long as there aren't too many new pages created in a given span of time, I suppose that should certainly be doable here, putting in the links to pages listed in the automatic New pages page. I also do think an image on the front page would be nice, mostly to give a more complete and interesting visual impression. Yes, you are right, I've thought about that (image) and tried it out in the revamp page I made a little while back. I am looking into this topic of the "techincalities" behind modifying the visual style and how it is described, methods for how to do it, and so on. What I think I've found out so far, is that it is indeed possible for anyone with access to editing pages, to modify this (at least it seems I am able to modify this, and certainly you are). The page which looks like is being said to control this is MediaWiki:Monobook.css. That page is said will override the default settings. I found some help pages that talk about all this, that I will list below here. Anyway, a useful tip that is given in one of the help/instruction pages I found, is that one should experiment on what is actually an individual such page that apparently every user has (fairly excited to discover that, I must say). It's found by adding "/monobook.css" (no quotes) to one's normal user page URL. This means that one can freely experiment with the layout, or skin, as I think it's called, and then only later put the finished result in the page I linked to above, which will then cause the skin to show for every visitor. Really, really interesting, this is, I must say. :-) Now, I don't know any PHP, which is the script language (or what it is) that these settings are done in, but there are some examples to try out, and I think that many of the things you mention can be done just by looking at the examples and experimenting a bit. As for a new logo, I'm thinking it might be possible to come up with some ideas and just make some very crude sketches and so on, and then have like a little contest or something in the tinWiki forum in ATS, asking people to submit images that might become the new tinWiki logo. Maybe the logo would be suggested to be in terms of some sketch or other specifications, or maybe people could just submit images totally from their imagination. That's just a thought, though. I do doodle sometimes in like MS Paint or sometimes in a little less basic drawing programs, but like you I don't have any photoshop kung fu, so I'd probably not submit any images, or if I did it would be just for fun. (I tried making a little lolcats image a while ago and posted in BTS. :-) Anyway, I will try and see if I am able to make any changes in that personal css skin page I just found out about now, and will let you know if I have any luck with that. Here are some pages with info on tweaking the colors and such:
It sounds fairly exciting what you're talking about here. :-) Definitely is tinWiki progressing and moving along in the right direction, I would say (although that's a fairly oddly constructed sentence?.. :). Thank you again for the message, and I think this is quite interesting to be able to try and help out with. :-) Optimist 10:59, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
[edit] Werewolf articleYou don't have to thank me, I enjoy writing articles. Surfing Tinwiki for articles needing to be fixed is sort of a hobby. 75.110.246.35 14:39, 17 April 2008 (CDT) [edit] Re: Your tin logoWilliam One Sac, Thanks for the compliment, about the graphic and the page in general. :-) I was happy to see that, and also am a bit proud that I'm inspiring you to put more stuff in your own user page. I want to just share some little thought I had after I put up the graphic (I wasn't actually thinking too specifically when actually making the graphic..) After I, so to say, noticed I'd linked the graphic to my Contributions list page, I thought that maybe writing and doing stuff to improve tinWiki is to provide visitors and other users with like raw materials for protecting themselves against various confusion or ignorance, like is basically talked about in the ATS slogan ("deny ignorance"), basically helping them create a sort of proverbial tin hat, if it makes any sense to put it like that. So maybe, at least I thought that yesterday, the name "tinWiki" could also be seen that way, that it's a place to create what people might need (like proverbial tin....) to, so to say, create their own protection. May sound a bit far fetched, but, still, I wanted to just mention the thought. :-) Optimist 16:29, 25 April 2008 (CDT) [edit] A (possible) little development in the skin settings project...William One Sac, Hi. I'm trying to look a bit more into this skin settings topic. What I think may be why I was unable to change the settings for just my own user account, for the default skin used in tinWiki, namely the skin called MonoBook, is that such user changes for a skin need to be specifically allowed by writing some settings in a control document called "LocalSettings.php". Unfortunately it seems I'm not able to actually download/view the settings in that page, and so I don't know for sure, but since nothing happened when I tried changing the skin settings in my user skin settings page, I assume there's at least a chance that user skin settings haven't been allowed in the control document I mentioned. But, my impression is that such permissions may not need to be set in that control document (which is not possible to alter or edit without having access to the server software directly, or something like that, I think), for making changes in the skin settings that will affect the whole tinWiki site (as opposed to just oneself). My impression now, is that there are two settings pages that can be used for this (you and I, and maybe any user (?) can do this), namely the "css" settings page for the default MonoBook skin ( http://tinwiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Monobook.css ), or the "css" settings page that will apply no matter what skin a user has chose (users can choose from a list of skins, and so do not necessarily use the default MonoBook skin) ( http://tinwiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css ) I'm not going to go ahead and experiment with stuff that (if it works) will change the whole site, since I think you should be the one to do that. If you want to try either of the css settings pages, here's something you can try that I think should change the background (it's based on something I just found somewhere, and so I don't actually know too much about if or how it works, but it 'should' set a Sphinx image as background (?), perhaps tiled or such):
I tried that in my user skin settings page for changing the MonoBook skin ( http://tinwiki.org/wiki/User:Optimist/monobook.css ), but like I mentinoed, nothing happened (for reasons I'm not entirely sure about, of course, but like I mentioned now, I think user settings haven't been permitted). Anyway, if it is indeed possible to do changes in the css settings pages that will affect all users, then I guess it's just to go ahead and find some nice settings for color and so on. :-) I'm crossing my fingers if you try this. If there's anything you think I might be able to clear up about the stuff I tried to articulate here, or about the whole skin settings topic, please let me know and I will be happy to try and find out something. Optimist 21:55, 29 April 2008 (CDT) [edit] Skin settings, againI noticed you gave those css settings pages a try. Seems those pages don't work, then. Oh, well, at least it's a new progress, knowing what *doesn't* work. It seems it's the LocalSettings.php file that needs to be edited. And as far as I've been able to understand it, that takes direct access to the server. So I guess skin changes require some help from Skeptic Overlord or someone else with similar access. Then the skin changes can either be done directly in the LocalSettings.php file, or that php file/document can be altered to permit the css settings pages (that are reachable here from the "outside", directly from the website) to alter the skin. So, I think that's the conclusion, right now. Optimist 19:59, 1 May 2008 (CDT) [edit] I'll try and collect the exact settings neededI made a little space in my user page for collecting and listing the exact settings that would be needed in the LocalSettings.php file for permitting direct skin changes done here from tinWiki's own pages (the css pages I linked to previously). I've also experimented a little bit just with tables and colors, if you'd like to take a look. Here is that little experimenting, which is also where I'll list the precise settings needed, when I've found them. Some color changes and so on can of course be done simply in the wiki code. But having access to actually changing the skin, is of course what is the goal, now. Being able to change the skin could, I believe, for example mean being able to change the link color from blue to green, like in the health wiki you mentioned. Anyway, I think we're closing in on the solution, here, as they say. It's going to be quite fun, I think. :-) And I agree very much that an improved appearance will definitely help tinWiki. Optimist 18:22, 2 May 2008 (CDT)
[edit] ReplyWilliam One Sac, Thanks for the compliment. :-) I am very glad to see you like what I did in the revamp page. Of course, like I mentioned, it's only like a kind of sketch and an attempt that I'm 'throwing out there', as they say, so you, and maybe others, can take a look and maybe get new and more precise ideas for the exact changes that should be done. About the ability of administrators to change the skin (I think administrators are the only ones who would be able to do such changes), I found some information that is interesting: MediaWiki allows administrators to specify site-wide CSS rules to be added to every page rendered. These rules can be added by editing the page MediaWiki:Common.css. That quote is from here, and it seems to say the ability to change the skin using the the Common.css page/file is there by default. So what I am thinking is that, either I was mistaken about the location of that file in tinWiki (the link I posted in a previous message here), or the ability to change the skin using that method has been switched off. If it has indeed been switched off, it's probably just a matter of switching it back on. But, whether Skeptic Overlord (or who adjusted the tinWiki LocalSettings.php file back when) remembers exactly what the setting is, could be that isn't 100% sure since there's been a little while since tinWiki was created, or I assume that could be an issue. On a side note, not that I have any skills or experience (just some tiny fiddling around a couple of times) with servers and that type of software, but, I'm going to install a server on my computer for something just for myself, and I see that once I get that in order (not sure exactly when it will be, though...), it will be just to go ahead and install MediaWiki, as well. The download file, which is free, as you probably know, seems to be something like 2 MB. :-) The exact same version that tinWiki uses seems to not be available (1.5.7, I think it is), but there's one that is quite close (version 1.6). I might learn something about the LocalSettings.php file (I've never seen what's actually in that file, just a couple of settings in help pages in MediaWiki.org and other help sites). So, later I *could* be able to know exactly what settings we're talking about, here, but I absolutely can't say when it's going to be, so I almost shouldn't even mention it. Anyway, the solution here is probably quite simple, but stuff is always really hard, even if it's simple, ....if one hasn't a clue how it's done (if you've ever tried a new software/application, you know what I mean, or if you are used to using Windows and ever decided to try out Linux, then you definitely know what I mean *eek*). We'll keep working on this, though, and I really think the end is nigh. lol (What?..) Bit of mistaken use of English, there, I guess. :-) lol Optimist 23:59, 4 May 2008 (CDT) [edit] My Leo Zagami additionWilliam One Sac, thank you. I suddenly feel well informed for a change. :-) I watched the video interview the other day, and actually found that in an ATS thread (99% certain). It's quite interesting, and perhaps a little disturbing, but he seems to know lots of stuff about secret societies and all such things, and more. I clicked on the fullscreen button in the new beta YouTube player (I'm sure they had fullscreen before, as well) and had a fairly interesting 'tv evening'. Definitely recommendable, I would say. Thanks again. :-) Optimist 04:45, 12 May 2008 (CDT) [edit] I created a new template messageWilliam One Sac, Hi. I want to ask you what you think of this template message, both the general idea, and regarding the colors and so on. I based it on the look of the 'fields' or what I should call them in the revamp page. I know the colors are what you have suggested would be good for a skin, so I'm not sure if you would think the colors are ok to use as this already now, since the new skin is not in place yet. Btw., I was able to post in your discussion even though you have temporarily locked it to protect from spam ("WARNING: This page has been locked so that only users with sysop privileges can edit it. Be sure you are following the protected page guidelines.") Optimist 17:42, 14 May 2008 (CDT) P.S. I forgot to actually say that the idea is that the template message can be placed at the beginning of article discussions. :-) Optimist 17:45, 14 May 2008 (CDT)
[edit] ATS points (9/11 articles)William One Sac, Hi, again. With regard to generally improving the 9/11 articles, Isaac suggested bringing up tinWiki to the users in the ATS 9/11 discussion forum, which I then did yesterday. It seems the thread has gotten some attention, and one user there also asked some questions about writing in tinWiki and so on, which was a good thing, because then I could try and clarify things that perhaps others there, too, would be unsure of. Then Isaac posted about the probably quite interesting, for ATSers, thing about receiving ATS points for good work done in tinWiki. I wasn't sure where to find a presentation of that topic (tried searching here for "points", but it seems I got up lots of pages and articles that weren't about that particular topic I was looking for), and so I'm wondering what the current policy or such is for the point rewards. Is there a page here that describes that? (If not, then perhaps it should be mentioned somewhere, either in the Community portal, for example, or in some other suitable place.) Why I ask right now is so I can refer to something in the thread in the 9/11 discussion forum. Btw., I've created a Project page, which is an(other) idea I've stolen from Wikipedia (like the discussions template message and the userbox ideas), to coordinate, so to say, work on articles relating to a specific topic. This page I created now is called "TinWiki.org:Project 9/11" and is, of course, precisely for improvement of these 9/11 articles that have been discussed a little bit over in the ATS tinWiki working forum now recently. The idea is to make the article page, to call it that, like a 'hub' with all the useful and important information, links, and so on, that one might need, while the discussion there can be used to communicate among those who might join the project. I think it's a type of page that does make a lot of sense, and maybe it could be used for other sets of articles, so to say, in the future. Come to think of it, I will try and create another of those 'userboxes' right now, similar to this one, for people who might join the 9/11 articles improvement project and perhaps would like to put such a box on their user page saying they are part of that project. I do believe that is something I read is part of such project in Wikipedia, and that I thought of making such a Project Member userbox the other day. Anyway, I think that could be a bit fun, making such a box. Well, that was a sort of digression, there. What I was wondering about, then, is if there's any policy summary or such, for ATS point rewards, that can be posted to the 9/11 forum people. Thanks, btw., for clarifying about the discussion template, I just wanted to be sure what you thought. I'll be putting that template in some discussions then, which I think should make a fairly nice feature addition. :) Optimist 11:53, 15 May 2008 (CDT)
[edit] Main page revampWilliam One Sac, Wow. :-) That's fairly amazing to see the revamp version on the front page now. :-) Thanks for the compliments. I suppose I am a bit proud that I've managed to do sort of what I was trying to, with the wiki code and such. I'm really proud that you put it on the Main Page, though, I mean that the wiki code in there seems alright to actually use. Note that, in addition to it being sort of cluttered and so on, I've replaced a template (I think) and instead just wrote the whole code right in the page. I believe that's the gray panel thing on top, which I wrote out in the page instead of making an alternative template. Anyway, I think the colors which you have suggested there are indeed quite good, and that it will look really clear without 'screaming', when the skin is updated. For now, I think it does make a lot of sense to just go ahead and do what we can do, for now, without access to updating the skin, I mean. I would be very happy to update the image there, if it's alright. If you want to switch later, maybe I can update the Featured Article for a time later on, but initially I'm thinking that you do a very good job at that, and I'm not feeling totally sure I'd do that good a job at it myself, so to say. About the two lists, new and popular pages, I will be happy to share in updating those, as well. And I think it makes sense, what you say, to perhaps skip articles that maybe aren't quite articles yet, and also to skip those that are really duplicates. By the way, I did think that Varginha article reminded me of something, that I'd seen something about that here before. I haven't looked at them now, but if they are really about the exact same topic then maybe they could be merged, or if they are about slightly different topics, then perhaps the content could be distributed, so to say, somewhat thoughtfully between the two articles. Well, perhaps it's something to consider, anyway.. About the popular articles list, I think it's for the most part quite stable which pages are the most popular. Of course, it should still be checked regularly so the list on the front page actually reflects how the real popular articles list is (I mean the automatic one). Anyway, quite exciting with this update, I must say. Of course, the stuff I had put in the revamp page was still just like an experiment, and many improvements can still be done. All sorts of changes and ideas you might think of, of course feel free to go ahead and do. The blue link color for the number of articles makes sense, I would agree, since it makes the link more visible. Those statistics are nice to put some extra focus on. Lots of changes like that, as you say, like bold font, are just to go ahead and do. I was wondering about the background color for the date. I notice it's white, and that date is put in using a template that existed from before. An laternative template for displaying the date, with any changes wanted, can of course be made. As for the revamp page itself, maybe that could still exist for a little while longer, so there's a place to try out stuff, since the new front page is still new, and various adjustments might be thought of that could be good to do, and then there's a place to try them out like in a kind of sandbox page. One thing that maybe isn't a huge problem or such, but that I'm just a little bit puzzled by, is the spaces between some of the elements or tables in the page. One of the spaces seemed like it got increased quite a bit (the one between the two lists) after I did some change that I can't see was really related to the space. It also seems like some of the spaces are bigger or smaller according to what browser is used (I have tried for example the Firefox browser and the Safari browser, also Internet Explorer). Anyway, I like very much the simpler appearance of the front page now. :-) And like I say, any changes, big or small, that you might think of, are of course just to go ahead and do. I'll be happy to try and help out if some of the wiki code stuff gets confusing. I've noticed, btw., that putting in very clearly visible comments are quite helpful (I tried to do some of that in the Community portal page's wiki code). I think it's a very great compliment that you put that on the front page now, and I am very proud of that, and also a little bit stunned. :-) Like, wooow. :-o :-) Anyway, it's something of a big event for tinWiki, this update. Yay. :-) Optimist 17:05, 22 May 2008 (CDT)
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