User talk:Williamonesac

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William One Sac 14:41, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

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Contents

Requesting member artwork

[reply from my discussion] William One Sac, that is actually a brilliant idea. I have briefly noticed that there is an art forum in ATS. If your idea pans out, as I think they say, and those people want to contribute to tinWiki articles -- like I see many have already expressed they think sounds interesting -- that is obviously a great resource. Wow.

The matter of copyright and such things is perhaps good to get clarified for those who would submit work to be used in articles. I don't know too much about such things. I think it could be possible for them to state the their image is only allowed to be used in tinWiki, like some sort of exclusive license or something, and that they retain their copyright other than that. But, like I say, I don't know too much about these sorts of things. Of course, tinWiki's general license is the one that's linked to at the bottom of every page, the Creative Commons license (not sure right now what exact version of that it is, since I think there are a number of versions with different rights and conditions that apply, depending on which one it is). A creator of a work can choose to publish the work under one of those Creative Commons licenses, or even to give the work out into the public domain.

I'll post a couple of links from Wikipedia here:

http://creativecommons.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_licenses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

Anyway, a super good idea. There are these art and graphics people in ATS, then, and tinWiki articles are of course greatly benefited by having graphics and images. Like I said, improvements are happening all the time, here. :-) Optimist 23:27, 22 May 2008 (CDT)

Table spaces (brief comment)

William One Sac,

Hi. I just now updated the image on the front page. What I noticed, or realize (I believe), because the new image box is slightly larger because of more text content, is what causes the two list tables/boxes (new and popular pages) to be spaced farther away than I 'intended'. This means I now know how to fix that problem, even if perhaps it's not really that huge a problem in the first place. Just wanted to let you know. I may not try and fix it right now, but it could be I do it some time before tomorrow, at least... Optimist 15:22, 25 May 2008 (CDT)

[reply from my discussion page] Thanks for the reply. What I came to think, once the image table box got a little taller, after I updated it with the moving rock image, and I noticed the effect of that on the space between the two list tables, is that those list tables are each inside of tables that are 50% the height of the image table, and top aligned inside of those. That means that, when the image table is fairly tall, the "Popular pages" list table will begin, vertically, at the middle of the image table. Since the "New pages" table box won't reach very far towards the middle of the image box, there's going to be a space. The taller the image table is, the bigger the space will be between "New pages" and "Popular pages".
I'm 99.99% sure that's it. So the solution is, for placing the "Popular pages" table to just a certain space below "New pages", to add a table row under the two that already exist, and that the two list tables are in. That third row will then take up whatever space is extra as far as height difference between the image table and the two list tables. But I looked at it now, and, like I have mentioned before, I'm not always making sure to put enough comments in the wiki code when it gets a bit complicated, and so for today I'm frankly giving it up. I'll need a bit more time to look at it and understand exactly what I wrote there in the wiki codes. :) Then I will put in some more comments.
I definitely don't blame you if you're reluctant to try and fiddle with the table codes and all that stuff, so if you have any specific things you would like to have changed there on the Main Page, anything at all, let me know and I will try and figure it out, most likely tomorrow, how to do it. I am also thinking to try and add that third row tomorrow, to lift the "Popular pages" tables. There is of course the option of simply stretching the two tables in height, so they fill the whole height of the image table, but I think that might look strange, so my initial thought is that just moving the lower list table/box up is the best thing to do as far as the space. Btw., I think the space issue won't show up at all on screens that have really high resolution (and keep the browser window maximized). My current resolution is 1024x768, which isn't among the highest nowadays, and with the moving rock image and text in the image table, I see a space between the list tables which is almost half the height of the list tables themselves.
Not sure all this I wrote was too clearly put. Anyway, I think most of the issues there may be should be possible to fix. And, again, just let me know if there's anything at all you would like me to try and change and tweak in the Main Page, and I will be very happy to try my best. Thanks again for the compliments. And improvements and adjustments, big or small, can of course be done whenever you might think of some issue or idea. There is always room for improvements. :) Optimist 22:42, 25 May 2008 (CDT)

Re: Main Page

[reply from my discussion] William One Sac, the new yellow shade is good, too. How about the remnants of the lighter shade, between the image table and the New pages and Popular pages tables, should that conform with the overall background, to get the new shade? I will be happy to update it.

About the order of the elements, and the gray panel thing on top, those are definitely things to consider improving. Remember that the experimentation page was mainly a sort of sandbox type page, the way I intended it, so I definitely think there's tons of room for improving what was there at the time when the Main Page was updated. It was pretty good in many ways, but there's still things that can be improved. I have thought, myself, about the two things you mention. The order of the elements is partly an experiment based on the original Main Page and based on some glancing on the Wikipedia front page as well. Then I simply added the image table on the bottom of that. Then you suggested that the image table should probably look a bit smaller, and so I simply halved its width. Then when you mentioned the New pages list, and I threw in the Popular pages list with it (I think), I just used the half space next to the image table. Well, I could have just added the two lists, but I figured, for some reason, that the image table would look better to the right, as opposed to the left, in the two halves at the bottom there. Everything can be changed, though. As for the gray box, I've thought that the categories linked to there are probably those that were considered the main or most interesting categories. But, which categories are the main ones can, I should think, change over time. So the selection of links that goes in the gray box is probably something that should be reevaluated a little bit from time to time. The general design and layout of the box can also be considered whether to change, or perhaps the whole gray box element should just get totally transformed into something entirely different.

What I've thought makes a kind of sense about that gray box element, is how it reminds me of like a tin bar. In a way, it could be nice to have some additional graphical elements, in addition to the tinWiki logo, reflect the tin 'theme', or something like that. Still, there's no need to focus overly on that if it doesn't seem like it achieves anything as far as the overall goal of this website, of course. So, I definitely think everything can be considered to be adjusted, rearranged, and changed, yes. When things are still in an experimentation 'phase', though, I think it's wise, with regard to the visitors' experience, to do experimentations in the revamp experimentation page, and then only periodically, when some new layout or design is arrived at 'finishedly' (yep, I invented a word, I think :), then those changes should be 'implemented'. I say that from some memories I have of thoughts from visiting other websites or basically any 'service', where I like to feel I recognize the place. Remember when Yahoo! changed their front page? Of course, I realize that tinWiki has relatively few visitors, but those who do visit, through the Main Page, not least, should probably be treated like VIPs or something. I come to think now that, there should maybe be some sign on the front page, a message, saying "We're working on updating the Main Page; sneak a peek here", ...something like that. Maybe we could do that. Anyway, I definitely do agree that some further improvements are possible to do at the Main Page. Optimist 18:58, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

P.S.
I've gone ahead an included a message on the Main Page, concerning the revamping. I also included an encouragement to offer views and thoughts by going to the revamp discussion page. Perhaps this will help more people feel more like part of the whole process and activities that go on in tinWiki, as well. :-) While I think the idea of having such a message on the Main Page right now is a nice idea, I'm not sure how well I went about it. What do you think? Optimist 19:35, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

[reply from my discussion] William One Sac, I have begun to rearrange the table elements according to what I understand you to suggest, but I haven't finished just yet. I should eat something right now, and plus I've got a little bit of fever, so I just don't have the concentration to figure out how to get the image table width to 100%. :-) Also, there's a white space above that also needs to be fixed. But keeping the tables approximately like you describe, should permit keeping the wiki table code simpler, as well, and so I am probably going to try and delete some of the more confusing stuff that followed from keeping the two lists next to the image table (a lot of "rowspan" stuff, that at least I think gets really confusing fairly quickly..)

Anyway, how does it look, if you consider what I'm at least trying to do there? :-)

As for the gray 'box' table background image, that's possible that it can be done, but I'm not sure just yet how the settings and attribute 'things' and so on are written to get it done. I assume you want the border gone, though, along with adding crumpled aluminum image as background? I mean, since aluminum foil isn't very thick. Of course it's not necessary to remove the border, it might look like aluminum foil was like glued onto some 'slab' or something. Anything's possible. :-)

I'm glad you like the thing of having a message about the revamping placed right there on the Main Page. I do agree that someone has to make final decisions, and that you and I are probably the natural ones to make such final decisions. But input and feedback and comments and so on is still nice to be able to give for users and so on, of course. :-) As for making changes on the Main Page, it's not that I think it's like disastrous, I rather think that some degree of such reflects nicely the 'work in progress' type of website that a wiki is. But, like you say, it's nice to have a place to try out things so that not each and every idea has to be done right on the Main Page. Anyway, I'll see if I can get the image table to fill the horizontal space. And I'll also try and make the yellow shade lighter, like you suggest. I both like to sometimes try and see if I can get approximately what I'm looking for by writing in the hexadecimal numbers directly, which I just like to do for some reason, but I also have a paint program that lets me select a color and which then gives the hexadecimal code, so I can pick the color straight from a visual palette, you probably know what I mean, like there is in every kind of program where one can choose a color. Anyway, I will lighten the yellow color, but if you have some specific choice that you know, feel free to edit that in, of course, or let me know the hexadecimal numbers for it and I'll put it in. Optimist 16:41, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

Hi, again. I've come fairly long now, at least with what I was trying to do. As for the background color, I simply increased the "light" of that a bit, but at least it's something to take a look at and see how the background color should go from there, so to say. Maybe the hue should be changed a bit, more or less saturation, or also change the light up or down.
As for the background image in the gray box, that looks like could be a little complicated. According to this help forum, it appears we might have to be able to use that Common.css settings page that has been an issue a little while ago, since it's the same page that controls the skin. As far as I can understand, table background images are by default not allowed in MediaWiki, and so it has to be switched on. That's how it seems to me for now, anyway. Optimist 20:07, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

[reply] I'm glad you like how it's coming along in the revamp page. :-) I made two changes as you suggest, the frame and darker font color for the message about the revamping. Not totally sure of the colors, of course, but it's a start. The border color was set already, all I did was make the border 1 instead of 0 pixels wide (I copied that table code from somewhere, not sure where, but that's why there were border color settings and some other settings there already.

I for one am not surprised that such settings and all that are forgotten after some time, since it's about two years since tinWiki was installed, I think. Anyway, if the setting is changed to allow us to control the skin from here in the pages of tinWiki, it's the same change that needs to be done for letting us control the skin as for letting us set table bacground images to be allowed (or that's how I understood the help forum thread I linked to).

About the gray box thing, I definitely think it should be possible to discuss some ideas and even try out some things inside the revamp page. I see fairly well what you mean, that the box is kind of what tinWiki 'is' in a way. But who knows, taken slowly and easily, the result might be good, and could be put on the Main Page.

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I am drinking orange juice, and think I'll be well perhaps tomorrow. It's warm right now, but the weather was sort of unpredictable last week or thereabout, it's been sometimes summer warm, and suddenly it'll be like cold as in Fall one day. The weather's really been strange since about winter a year (and a half) ago, I think. Well, that's off topic. :-) lol Optimist 22:06, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

Re: new category: terrorism

William One Sac,

Hi, again. I updated the Main Page -- we are go for rock. :-)

Anyway, yes, I definitely agree that a terrorism category belongs. Like you say, tinWiki has its focus, and even if the word "terrorism" is fitting for an article category, that's not to say that now each and every terrorism topic ('in the world') shall have an article, not to say a full and complete article, here since there's a terrorism category. The only thing that's the case is that some topics in tinWiki will naturally be about terrorism, and for practical reasons, those articles can be collected together with the category keyword that they have in common, which is of course "terrorism".

Lots of stuff in tinWiki does, like you say, relate to terrorism. Like the false flag stuff, they are in a way also terrorism. The Gladio stuff, not that I know much about that, is of course terrorism -- even if it wasn't done by who one normally thinks of as terrorists and who were said to have done it. So, definitely should there be a terrorism category, I agree 100%. Optimist 22:15, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

P.S.
I also thought, when reading your message, that some of those categories might be good to make sub-categories under each other, like the whole 911 category could be categorized in the Terrorism category, and so show as a sub-category of that. It's also actually possible to simultaneously make Terrorism a sub-category in 911; I know that doesn't make sense, in a certain kind of way, like two folders that are both inside each other at the same time, but for practical purposes, there might be some point in doing this with some categories. At least I *think* it's possible to do this... Optimist 22:32, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

[reply] WOS, definitely very appropriate with that added category. Yeah, it was good to have those bullets, finally. It looked fairly weird, really, with those lists just 'hanging in the air' like they did. :-)

Btw., the article categories might be good to look at at some point. It seems some of the categories could perhaps be considered removed. And there's possibly some more ones that would be good to add. And that thing about creating sub-categories is also a great way to structure articles, I would say. Also, I haven't been very good at being consistent in the manual category list page, but that list should probably reflect very strictly what categories are sub- and main-categories in the wiki codes, as opposed to what topic could be 'said' to belong under each other (the latter is mostly how I started out listing sub-categories, which is something I think I should correct later on).

I think the categories is perhaps one of the interesting areas in the long term where very important and powerful improvements can be made as far as user friendliness and making the information in tinWiki easy to relate to and so on. Well, that's just some thoughts. Optimist 23:45, 31 May 2008 (CDT)

Hollow Moon

I like the Hollow Moon article, but should this be deleted? It is rather useless trivia and detracts from the article.


How many stacked cheerios would you need to cover the distance from earth to the moon?

It would take approximately 76,880,000,000 stacked cheerios to reach the moon.


FACT!!

--Mig-17 19:13, 4 June 2008 (CDT)

Yes, you are right. It should definitely go. William One Sac 19:28, 4 June 2008 (CDT)
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